To me The Shadow are the creators.

I have not met a bad one, but then I admit I haven't met them all.

Can you blame most of the people here for being self concious about what they write on this forum??? After the trouble we've had?? I'll admit I wasnt around for most of it but from what I've heard it wasnt nice.

In my opinion everyone has the ability to be nice so I treat them as such untill I know they are not, or at least I try to. If i apply that theory to everyone I think I will do very well. There:
In my opinion The Shadow are good untill someone can prove otherwise.

No. You have every right to ask for our honest opinions. How we answer is not your fault. We'll get back to normal soon enough. Please hang around untill we do. We can be great fun.

Dont blame you. You shouldn't have to feel that we are being rude to you just because we got on the wrong side of some nit wit with nothing better to do except have a go at us for our views.

Shadowed Belief.

PS: Very nice to meet you! I'm Shadowed Belief. Avere una bello rimanere.

I am willing to believe that the Shadow are the creators. Not because I have any evidence of my own, memories, connections or feelings or anything like that. Unfortunately my memories still evade me.
But because I have read here on this forum an explanation that is feasible.
Not only believable, or possible, but given in a matter of fact way that makes sense.
I have read posts on lots of forums that would disagree with this view and with the 'god made it all' view, but the people who write these posts saying what they don't believe don't post to give you an idea of what they do believe instead.
It is easy to say 'that is rubbish', but if you don't have anything that makes more sense then why should I believe you?

I know there has been trouble here, but though it was the 'nit wits' fault that it came here, it is our fault that it is still here today.
The nit wit probably has moved on already but here we are discussing them again!
They should not be allowed to change us, we are a good forum with good intentions. So we should stop talking about it now and really move on.

If we are so convinced there is nothing wrong with the way we think, then we can stop trying to prove it now, and just get on with things.
I think it's time.

DEA.

Grazie tutto molto poich‚ tuo risposta e poich‚ tuo grazioso benvenuto Shadowed Belief.
Thankyou very much for your reply and for your gracious welcome Shadowed Belief.
And you are right in much of what you say.

DEA you make an excellent point about its being time to move on, and so I shall do just that.
More posts and no fences.

I give you all my thanks for your replies.

Well...I personally believe that souls are created by the Source. Perhaps Shadow have something to do with the patterning of souls, but not the creation. So I don't believe they are "good" or "evil" they just are. I also don't see a difference between 'kin souls and non-kin souls...to me what makes otherkin is a case of a soul in the wrong body...nothing about the nature of the soul involved.

Yes, but that depends on what you personally believe The Source to be.

I am not the only one who believes this way, more people than you might think also believe this, though few are willing to discuss it openly with others. I suppose this is partly because it is a private belief, kind of religious in nature and discussing things like this has caused arguements in the past, and partly because it is not the most popularly held view, and when those who believe the more popular veiws of The Source, (One God/Goddess/Creator etc, etc) find it hard to accept even the idea of two, they could get very upset if anyone tries to introduce a belief system that incorporates three or possibly more.

I'm afraid you just lost me Byakko.
You just said that Kin and Non-Kin are the same. The only difference is that in Kin the soul is in the wrong body.
But I don't understand that thinking and I would appreciate it if you could explain it to me.

That might explain perhaps a Tiger in a human body, or a Wolf. But only if somewhere you could find a Human in a Tiger's body or a Wolf's body.
And it still wouldn't explain the Kin who have no 'real life' equivelent existing in the world.

I am left thinking that if your theory could be correct it means that all the people who believe themselves to be these Kin types do not really have a chance of existing.
Vampires, Dragons, Pegasus, Elves, Unicorns, Fae, Wraith, Griffin, Pheonix, the list is almost endless. All with no explanation if your theory is correct.
I do not know what makes a soul Otherkin and not human, but I have to believe there is a difference, because many of these people are becoming friends of mine, and it simply isn't acceptable to me to have to believe that they are all either mistaken, deluded or lying.

To answer Lady C's question: I believe the source is basically those 3 beings in one to me, not three separate beings...though that's not to say I'm right just that's how I personally see it.


To answer Kes's question: If you believe there are multiple planes of existance and that souls can be incarnated and reincarnated across all planes, then my theory isn't that out there. I mean, if a soul can be incarnated in any plane, then of course you get beings not native to our universe here in human bodies. In the same vein, there are probably plenty of human-kin in existance...by that I mean human souls in non-human bodies. If you ask me, when any being dies or decides to incarnate, or is forced to incarnate I guess (you get the idea), it isn't by default on the same plane the being originated from in my belief system...it can be on any plane, in any realm/universe, not just the one it came from. So otherkin that are not of kintype of earthly creatures can and do exist...their souls just didn't start out here on earth.

Granted, by theory requires a belief in reincarnation, multiple linked universes, and human souls having the same properties as animal, elf, fae, dragon, etc. souls and the energy of demons, angels, etc. in that all can be smushed into physical bodies regardless of location. So if that isn't you, then that's fine and my theory doesn't work for you.

But to have the three together, they must be seperate entities. Light cannot be Dark aswell, and although together they can be Shadow neither one could be individually. I am sorry but that just doesn't make sense.

But if you don't believe that, then it is, isn't it?
And although I do believe that there are multiple planes of existence I also believe that there is only one on which physical bodies were created.
I believe that is why it is known to everyone as 'The Physical Plane'. Because this is the only Plane on which things are Physical!

Each of the other levels or planes are non-physical, and are peopled by energy beings of various different types.
But Non-Kin souls never get there, because Non-Kin are physical beings, their souls need a body to encase them. They need form in order to exist and function.
Kin come here to experience form, to feel what it is like to physically touch another object, to eat, to drink, to hunger and to thirst. to get tired, and to be intimate physically through the medium of skin.
It is a Non-Kin experience for a Kin essence.

Well, I don't believe that this is the only physical plane. I believe there are others, as well as planes that are purely non-physical. I have a question for you, though. You say that non-kin souls are purely physical...do you believe in ghosts then? Because those would be non-kin, human, souls/spirits and thus they exist without a physical form. Just curious about your views on spirits/ghosts on this plane. I personally believe in them, I've experienced and seen them, so I just wonder where you stand on the subject.

As for the source, I believe light, dark, and shadow can exist together in one being. They all balance out in my book.

I don't claim that my beliefs are Truth...the only way of seeing it and thus right. It's just the way I see it and, honestly, it's my personal truth, and so I don't think much of anything, short of a divine encounter, will really convince me that my personal truth is wrong...because it's what I believe and thus right for me. If it's not yours, that's fine. I don't think we can come up with some Universal Truth because that would require being told by whatever deity exists, their own nature and that of our multiverse, etc. etc. I don't see that happening any time soon.

I wish you would explain this to me in a better way. Or even one that doesn't contradict itself.
First you say

This says they are three beings and yet not three beings. How can that be?
I believe the best that could be said about that is that three entities can exist in one being, but not as one being. Three entities must be three beings, by definition, but could be three beings in one. Which is exactly what most of us here on this forum believe also.

Then you say that three things balance each other out. Which isn't possible. Two things can balance each other out, but three beings will always balance two out and leave one over!

As for my belief in spirits, yes I believe, I have seen and experienced them myself. And I would never say that these things do not exist. But you have misquoted me to make your point which is very naughty!
I did not say that Non-Kin are purely physical beings. I said they were physical beings who needed form to exist and function.
Even if I believed that every earthbound spirit ever seen WAS Non-Kin (which I don't,) one could hardly say they were functioning members of society could they? I mean when was the last time a spirit served you ketchup to go with your burger and fries?

In my belief the Non-Kin spirits have a place they go to when their bodies die, and sometimes for various reasons, these spirits get lost, or do not 'cross over properly.
The Non-Kin go to their religious places of worship and do extraordinary things to ensure that they obtain entry to this place, which being non-physical, never gets too full and never has to boot them out again to make room for the next lot! Hence no re-incarnation for them, as they don't need it and in fact most don't even want it, as many of them consider this existence in human bodies to BE *Milton Keynes*. And from some of the things I have experienced in this lifetime, I am not completely convinced that they are wrong!

I am glad to hear you say that the ideas you have are only yours, and of course the ideas I have are only mine. I do not believe there is a universal truth, and I wouldn't want to find it even if there was. That would take away my freedom to think for myself, and my need to explore my surroundings and experience new things.
I thank you very much for this discussion so far Byakko. It has been a learning experience for me and a real pleasure to debate with someone who does not get irate and rude when you disagree with them or ask them to explain their beliefs.
I hope to learn much from you about you and your ideas.

Darke.

I guess the issue is a purely semantic one. I see it as one being that incorporates those three. I think we're basically saying the same thing two different ways.

I see it as light and dark make grey...so they balance, and the grey is already a balance so all in all it's one big balanced being.

Last tuesday actually I kid. Okay, granted, they aren't exactly functioning members of society, but many are self aware and some can even affect the physical plane. So they *can* function without a body, just not as well as with a body.

Well they don't all believe that. A good deal of non-kin believe in reincarnation as well. I mean, I think the afterlife is what you make it. If you want to stay in some version of a "heaven" you can, and if you want another spin on the rollercoaster of life you can do that to. Heck you could even end up non-human the next time around (though still a physical being. It's not like a soul can somehow become an energy being like a demon in my book). I mean, I believe in multiple physical planes as well as non-physical ones...so somewhere dragons, mermaids, etc. could be physical beings. They just aren't physical beings *here* unless they are otherkin.

I too am glad and I agree...though sometimes I wish a Universal Truth *did* exist 'cause it would make things so much easier

Thanks I've enjoyed our discussion too. Far too many people think that their beliefs/ideas/etc. are *the only ones* and treat them as that elusive Universal Truth that may or may not actually exist. Which is why a lot of otherkin seem to not be able to handle skepticism, questions, and doubt in general.

I think so too.

Well some of the servers in fast food places do look pretty vacant!

This is the point at which we diverge.
I believe that each plane exists on it's own vibration, and that this is the only Plane that vibrates on a Physical level.
You would only need one of each level since they are infinite and never get overcrowded, so why would there be more than one Physical Plane? It wouldn't be necessary.
Each of the other planes vibrates differently to form a different level of existence.
For me a Non-Kin soul can only inhabit a Non-Kin body, as they don't have the necessary vibration to reach any of the planes of existence that Otherkin dwell on.

I am sure there are lots of people out there who would disagree with both of us!
I'd love to hear about anyone else's ideas, then we can all debate them all.

Arghhh! Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil!!
I WILL NOT POST!

You two are bats!

Darn it, I posted.

???