Firstly I love Noctem's agreement. It's clear, concise and easy to understand. However I do think it lacks certain things and that with the addition of some of terri's ideas, helpfully posted by GD, it could be made more user friendly and so even better.

GD said:
"having a tetanus is always a good start. as a child you should have one but you will also need a re-boost at the age of 14. its always best to have one every 6-8 years.

get yourself checked out every 6-8 months. blood diseases, though uncommon can be transmitted very easily and can be potential life threatening.
make sure your donor is getting checked out regally. this is a partnership so you will be trusting each other with your health.
make sure that you two communicate. issues such as little infections such as a cold, up to your sexual histories should be out on the table."

I think those points would be covered in the bit of the agreement which says:

"I understand that I have responsibilites to myself and to the Vampire I am a donor for, to keep myself healthy and free of artificial stimulants (unless by prior arrangement) before I donate my blood.
I promise to have the necessary mental and physical health checks regularly."

But it would be a good idea to emphasise that this is a partnership, and to include a list of common problems to be -*test*-('")ed for.

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GD said:
"its not just the donor who needs to be -*test*-('")ed. blood deseases can be transmitted both ways, so always make sure your clean."

With an addition to point out that Vampires need to be checked out for the same diseases and infections as donors, that would be covered in this part of the agreement:
" I understand that I have responsibilities to myself and my donor to keep myself healthy and free from artificial stimulants (unless by prior arrangement) before I accept my donation.
I promise to have the necessary mental and physical health checks regularly."

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GD said:
"if you have more then one donor you should always be honest with them. dont lie about how many others you have, if you have them. its polite and necessary for each donor to know who else you are taking from. they are putting their health in your hands so give them a bit of respect."

Both sides rely on the total honesty of the other in order to be safe, I think this point would be covered in this bit:
"I will keep myself only for the Vampire I am a donor for unless an agreement is made between us that I may donate to another. I also promise to ensure that having reached such an agreement with my Vampire, any other person I donate to has had the necessary mental and physical health checks regularly and is fit and healthy in every way."
And this bit wouldn't it?
"I promise that whilst under contract to my donor I will not at any time accept donations from any other person unless an agreement has been made between my donor and I that I may do so.
I also promise to ensure that having reached such an agreement with my donor, any other persons I accept donations from have had the necessary mental and physical health checks regularly and are fit and healthy in every way."
And of course the matter of respect is covered here:
"I acknowledge that it is only because of the generosity and kindness of my donor that I am able to feed in this way, and so I further promise to treat my donor with respect at all times and in all situations."

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GD said:
"check your equipment before each use, make sure it is fully sterile as you can pass on diseases with dodgy equipment."

This is an excellent point and sound common sense. I think it should be included in any agreement like this because you should never just assume that because common sense is free everyone will use it.

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I think this is the kind of thoughtful touch that really shows you care about the wellbeing, feelings and emotions of your Donor.
It's a shame that such thoughtfulness has to be written into a contract, but I can see that it is a good idea to put the thought forward to newcomers who might not think of it.

I think it is hard to know how best to ensure safety for adults, it is incredibly hard to take on the responsibility for the safety of a minor in this situation. I think in the best of circumstances minors should be supervised at all times, but of course I am fully aware that we don't live in the best of circumstances.
This is one of the things I hate the atitudes of the majority of planet dwellers for. If we were more accepted, and considered more acceptable then our youngsters would be safe. Most teens cannot even see a doctor without an accompanying adult, but here because they are afraid of the consequences they have to take this kind of situation on alone.
I think that is disgraceful and it makes me very sad.

I have read the agreement that GD mentioned and I refreshed my memory just before I wrote this, I am sorry, but I found it lacking in some key areas. I think between the two of them Noctem and terri have come up with the beginnings of a fabulous agreement document that addresses the key elements missing from the other. Once it is drafted out properly I believe it will cover most things that could be needed, and even more importantly it will totally rock.

Darke.

The one on Saguinarius is too short, says the same things several times and misses some really important points.
Noctem's is basic and to tell the truth you can tell that it is written by a Vampire. Even though it covers the topic of donating excellently from a medical standpoint, it's cold and unfriendly.
There is respect and their is honour, but there doesn't appear to be much feeling or fondness included. Although this is a contract I still think that we need to remember that it is a contract between two people who care about each other, not the merger of two big corporations.
Put some feeling into it, and allow the caring to show in the document. In my opinion it will be better for it.

terri there are some really good points in your post quoted by GD. You seem to have the soul that is missing from Noctem's agreement. Together I think your points and Noctem's make up an excellent partnership document.

why thankyou Shaddow, i just think that the document is down to common sense beyond anything else.

i guess you could think of it like sex in the way that you could take it for granted, have fun and not really think about and you may be fine (or you may have contracted something nasty) , or you could go down the clinic, get checked out and know that your fine and clean.
its also like sex in the way that there is emotion invloved and even though it can be between two people who dont really know eachother, its always best with someone you care about.

(however this is just a metaphor, and sex shouldnt be mixed with donoring)

I would prefer the term clinical to cold and unfriendly, and I would prefer to describe my agreement as an uncomplicated fundamental description of the primary concerns faced by Vampires and their donors. However, I will allow that to others it may seem uncaring and unfriendly and too business-like.

My agreement is precise and formal and I see where that may appear rigid and stiff.
The points terri suggested are excellent and I admit do make the agreement more comprehensive, more pleasing and more welcoming.
Together we seem to have made an agreement that suits both sides and comprehensively covers the necessary points.
I am personally very happy with the outcome of this, I will modify my agreement to include the points raised by terri.
This ammended agreement will be available to all who ask me. I will post it on my webspace and anyone will be free to use it. It will still have to look official as it is an official document, however with terri's help it will now have a face and a conscience
I am grateful to you for sharing your insights terri.

May I also ask (so others know) what is the best way to get yourself checked out ?
Are there any things other than the obvious HIV, Hepatitis B and Malaria that you should be aware of or checked for
This I feel should be linked into the page or even written along with the agreement.

Zygo

i think checks for chlamydia are neccesary, because its virtually undetectable

dont forget serenity this clause in our contract

"If at any time the donor becomes uncomfortable or is unwilling to participate another session should be made to avoid emotional stress or trauma."

I dont know where you came up with that one but it is good

The most common Blood Borne Viruses are:
Hepatitis B.
This is a viral infection that causes inflammation of the liver which could cause cirrhosis and is associated with an increased risk of Liver cancer. It is passed through blood and other body fluids. Approximately two thirds of the carriers of this chronic disease never get ill themselves and so although they can still transmit the virus to others, they may never know they have it, and some may eventually clear the virus from their body.
A vaccine is available to prevent infection, though there is no specific treatment.

Hepatitis C
This is a blood-borne viral infection which could cause inflammation of the liver and also long term liver damage. It can be passed through other body fluids but trasfer this way is rare.
For this strain of Hepatitis there is no vaccine, but a treatment is available. This is a set of medications which when given in the correct combination can lead to sustained clearance of the virus in approximately 50-60% of all patients.


HIV.
This stands for Human Immunodeficiency Virus and is the virus known to cause AIDS (Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome).
HIV damages or kills cells in the body's immune system, slowly but surely destroying its ability to effectively fight infections and certain cancers. It can take from a few months to over 10 years for an infected person to develop symptoms.
It is passed through the transfer of any bodily fluids, but usually this is a transfer through blood or sexual contact of some kind.
There is a treatment which slows the disease but as yet there is no vaccine, no real treatment and no cure.
Tests for these diseases are available from any GP surgery, Safe Sex clinic or private clinic.


Chlamydia, can only be passed through sexual contact of some kind, and so would not be an issue for Vampires and their donors unless they are also sexual partners. Although it is a nasty disease Chlamydia can be easily and successfully treated once it has been diganosed, and the -*test*-('")s are painless, fast and can be performed at any GP surgery.



I believe I may have read this and interpreted it in the wrong manner.

It appears to say that if at any time the donor is uncomfortable or unwilling then they should be forced to participate in other sessions until they are no longer worried by them.
I would appreciate it if you could explain to me how wrong I am in my interpretation of this sentence.
Thankyou very much.

I think that if you read it again you will see that it says that if the donor becomes uncomfortable or unwilling to participate then donating should stop for that session, and instead of trying to force it, nothing more should be done until the next session.

Ahh yes.
I knew that I had to be mistaken somehow.

Thankyou Lady C.

You should not donate blood if you are anaemic, this is because it is not safe for the donor to deplete their blood iron level further.

If you have been diagnosed with malaria at any time in the previous 12 months you should not donate blood. This is because the parasite that causes malaria can lay dormant in the system for up to a year.

If you have any infections you are taking antibiotics for then you should not donate blood. This is not because of the antibiotic, but due to the presence of the illness or infection requiring the antibiotic - it may be transmitted through the blood.

Finally you should discuss with your Vampire/Donor any and all allergies you have. If you are allergic to anything that is ingested into your body's system then it could feasibly be passed on through your blood/bite. These include medicines and even some common food substances.

Also have yourself -*test*-('")ed for any defiency before you agree to be a donor, an extra loss of blood if you are ill may be lethal. and as much as you want to help your vampire friend out be sure in your mind that what you are doing is right. Do not let yourself be pressured into it as demetry stated in our clause.

Sorry to ask an obvious question, but if you were going to include an age limit for donors how would you make them listen?
I mean you can't watch everyone, and also I wondered how a younger Vampire would get an older donor? Maybe they would only know donors their own age, so then what do they do?
This kind of thing would be great if we lived in settled and chartered communities, but we don't, we live in scattered areas in ones and twos. We take what we can get in the way of acceptance, and friendship is an added bonus.
I don't mean to sound snooty or anything but how on earth can you tell a starving Sang Vamp that they can't feed unless they can find a donor that is old enough according to you and your rules?
These things would be great in an ideal world but most of us realise that this world we are forced to live in is about as far from ideal for us as it can get right?
I'm just wondering how on earth you're going to get people to agree to age limit rules many of them just aren't going to be able to keep?

Its true that the thirst is intense and painful when ignored, but i value my donors safety above my own and also i value my safety as well. But chosing under age donors is just asking for trouble, unneccesary trouble i might add, that could be easily avoided

I didn't mean an adult choosing a young donor, I meant a young Vampire choosing a young donor.
I was thinking of things from a newly awakened, inexperienced Vampire's point of view. If the only people they know are people thier own age, 15 or 16 then how on earth are they going to find a donor that is over an age limit of 18?
It seems a bit drastic to me to are ask them to commit themselves to years of starvation and sometimes intense pain, facing the thirst and all it brings with it, just to fall in with what has been decided is the right age to donor.
Do you think, even if it were possible, that anyone has the right to ask them to do that?
Maybe 15 is young to donor, but I think that should be the donor's decision. After all they know themselves better than anyone else.
No of course as young donors they shouldn't be used and taken advantage of by older more experienced Vampires, but most of the older Vampires I have spoken to have more self respect than to do that, and for those who don't, let's be honest, no agreement is going to make the sligh-*test*-('") bit of difference.
Maybe the best idea would be to say, please don't let yourself be talked or forced into being a donor against your will, and if you think later that you were or are too young then you could come 'here' and talk to people who will understand and try to help you. Then leave a couple of url's to decent forums like this one or the one for your coven's/clan's forum if it has one.