Hello there!

Just wondering if there are any Tuatha de Danaan out there, or past-life tuatha....?

Airelinn

If it helps at all, this is where I would have put it too Airelinn.

I think we do have one member who is a member of the Tuatha de Danaan, but I haven't seen him for a while. I believe there was a slight scuffle between him and another member over Tolkein and the validity (or not) of some possibly stolen Elvish verbs or something. lol
Hopefully he'll be back.

Ah, that's a bummer...I haven't really found many Tuatha, but I haven't been looking for very long...Usually when I do find any, they tend to sound a bit "rehearsed" or almost as though they're "god-modding"...(lol, an rp'ing term; i'm a big ole' WoW nerd, hahaha).
But yeah, it'd be nice if he came back, for sure...

Hmm, that might have been my fault.
I was the one on the other end of the intense discussion mentioned.
Sorry. I was actually only intending to stand up for a principal and a belief and unfortunately it did get a little out of hand.
The Tuatha are the Irish Fae aren't they?
I would love to hear more about them. Having Elf in my blood I find all things Fae very interesting.

Darkness

Eh, it's okay...from what I read of the forum mentioned and his greeting (in hail and farewell), he likely expected to be at the end of a heated debate at some point...I wouldn't be suprised if I end up on one myself, hehe.

The Tuatha de Danaan were a race of people (some believed them to be gods/demi-gods) that inhabited Ireland thousands of years ago. Some people think that they migrated from Greece or that area.

The idea that they are fae came from modern Irish people. What legends say, is that the Tuatha were driven underground by the Milesians (another grecian peoples that migrated to Ireland later)...I tend to believe that they chose to go underground, but maybe that's just me.

When they were driven underground, it is said that they went into the "sidhe" or as modern Irish call it, "faery mounds"...but people have also thought that they retreated into Tir Na'n Nog, the "Land of Youth", hidden underwater. (I'm guessing this is where the idea that Tuatha were originally from Atlantis maaay have come from)...

Irish believed that the Tuatha had become Fae Folke that lived in the Sidhe...others believed Fae to be souls trapped in Purgetory, an idea that came later when Catholisism was being introduced.

I tend to get a little put off by people that say Sidhe and Tuatha are different beings, since Sidhe are faery mounds that Tuatha were said to have gone into...therefore making Sidhe a Thing and not a Being.
So I guess if you wanted to say you were Sidhe, it would make sense to say you were a descendant of Tuatha...

I, myself, think of myself as no more than an aware reincarnation.

So if I said I was Sidhe that would make me a re-incarnated underground fairy mound?
Hmm.

Yes...which is why I say I get a little confused as to why people say that they are Sidhe...now if they said they were Fae, that would make more sense....or if they said they were a descendant of Tuatha or once lived in a Sidhe...or something...hahaha

I believe Airelinn that you may have become a little mixed up with the translation of the word Sidhe.
The Sidhe can be 'The People of The Mounds', or the mounds themselves.

I did extensive research into the Tuatha de Danann as one of the Grigori myths I am obsessed with.
The ancient Irish believed them to be the messengers of their gods.
Many of the Eire legends tell of the Tuatha who taught the ancient peoples the ways of making fire, weapons, tools, the ways of the heavens, the written word, and many of the things that the Grigori are said by Enoch to have taught the humans in their care.
The parallels between the two historic legends drew me into researching the Tuatha as a race. They are fascinating people.

I didn't know that jardinn
Is there any chance you could pass on any sources so I can have a read or could you post the basic story of the Tuatha de Danaan.

This is the kind of information that helps me immensely.
Thanks

Zygo

I didn't know that either.
How many Grigori like myths have you come upon Jardinn?

the word Sidhe, means "faery mounds"...if you were to say "Aes Sidhe", you would then be saying "[people] of the sidhe"

People of the Sidhe originally referred to Tuatha de, but after several more invasions across the celtic lands, the tuatha began to be called "fae" as they were of the faery mounds.
When Christianity was finally spread, tuatha de were described as Faeries, or souls trapped within purgetory. This is where the idea that faerys and the like were found in "betweens" such as halloween, midnight and doorways came from.
Christianity became so large in Ireland because for once, Christianity had allowed itself to be molded into the society; especially in Ireland. The Tuatha de were mischevious fairy souls, no longer worth worship. Crosses were adorned in celtic art and many of the legends that made up Irish history were either distorted into fairy tales or made into something that was digestible to the Christian culture. Some gods, such as Brigid, were made into saints.

I know that there will be people that have a problem with what I just wrote, but that's just what I believe after hearing all these folk and fairy tales told to me by my grandfather and after being practically obsessed with Ireland. At one point, I wanted to move to Ireland so that I could join the IRA (or rather, Sinn Fein...their political branch) so that I could help free Ulster...buuut after more research and after visiting Ulster, I have found that it isn't exactly....."Irish"....anymore...for lack of a better explaination...

I guess what I'm saying, is please don't be offended; it's just my opinion, and I'm sorry sorry sorry if I offend anyone!! *bows a million times*

Airelinn

OH, OH!! I forgot to say (as if I haven't already said enough...@.@):

I am totally looking forward to hearing about the connections you made between the grigori and the tuaha, Fallen!! I'm a bit obssessive about the early hebrew religion and the dead sea scrolls, too....I hadn't really thought much about connecting the two before, I think it's really cool that you did!! ^.^

I can't see anything wrong with what you said there Airelinn Christianity has gone out of it's way to use abuse and generaly assimilate any and all other beliefs that have gotten in its way over the years to the point that it seems to contain a christianised bit of everything from Buddhism to Taoism to Paganism all mashed up to make it seem really attractive to "heathens"
I am not sure Christianity really exists at all because it appears to be a reworked version of every other religion and belief out there.

Zygo

Hmm, this is where we go from literal translation to understood meanings, and the truth is that Irish gaelic is very much misused and freely translated.
Technically 'síd' is the Old Irish Faerie Mound, but it also has a second spelling of sídhe with a translation of magical spirits/beings, and this is often in translation used to mean Faeries themselves or Faerie magic.
For example 'bean sídhe' meaning woman of the fairies. Obviously pronounced 'banshee'.
This is taken from the word 'bean', which is in turn taken from the Old Irish word 'ben' which means woman + sídhe, which is taken from the Old Irish word 'síde', and means fairy. The word 'síde' is a genitive of the word 'síd' which means fairy mound.
So any and all uses of this word in these ways is arguably quite correct.
Things are further complicated when you realise that modern Gaelic is slightly different from Old Irish in it's spelling, grammar and punctuation, aswell as it's pronunciation in some cases.
I suppose the spelling reform of 1948 was intended to make life easier for all those learning it and so encourage more users in order to stop the language from dying out altogether, but unfortunately things don't look good. The la-*test*-('") reports say that Gaelic will pass from use as one of the two first languages of Ireland by the end of the 21st century. The kiss of death for all native tongues is when it's natives no longer speak it first.
Such a shame.

It is a shame...a few years ago only 1/3 of Irish people spoke Gaeltach (irish gaelic). It was somewhere between 1950 and the 60's (if memory serves me) that "Conradh na Gaeilge" was formed by the members of the IRA and their appointed politicians, which is now called Sinn Fein. Unfortunately, you're right that it didn't work out as well as they had hoped. Now, the primary place in Ireland that people go to hear Gaeltach spoken as it was in the old times is the Aran Islands off the coast of the Galway Bay.

Bean (pronounced like bahn, very soft b and short on the ah, hehe) Sidhe (pronounced like shea, at least in Cork/Galway areas) does mean woman of the faery mounds, which is why I said that Aes Sidhe would mean people of the faery mounds.

When I named my daughter, Saibh, I used the anglican spelling, like you were talking about, because you're right; it's easier for people that use latin/anglican languages to pronounce, tho it is still quite a stretch....Saibh was originally spelled Sabd and prounounced like "Sive" with the b being very soft. Soooo...she's pretty much going to have to go by her middle name or get used to being called "Saeeb", hahaha

(sorry bout' all that; I'm so excited to be able to exchange knowledge with people who find an interest in it as much as myself; my husband gets all bored when I talk religion or linguistics with him. )

Slan,
Airelinn